Voir la source de ECA/Subject: on ECA Madrid, art(istic) research/pedagogy and CreatING Commons (Was: Contribute to ECA Madrid Postproduction)Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 10:06:40 0200


    From: zeljko@qsport.info
    To: Natalia Molina de la Villa <natalia.molinadelavilla@gmail.com>, commonswatch@lists.p2pfoundation.net
    Cc: Lucie Evers <lucieevers@icloud.com>, Amanda Jansen <amanda@ouishare.net>, "Thomas & Nicole ECA" <ecapostproduction@gmail.com>, Ana Margarida Esteves <anamargarida.esteves@gmail.com>, David Hamou <dhamou@hotmail.fr>, iva marcetic <iva.marchelina@gmail.com>, Ljuba Slavkovic <ljslavkovic@gmail.com>, Thomas de Groot <thomas@commonsnetwork.eu>, Marco Clausen <mc@prinzessinnengarten.net>, Daniela Patti <daniela.patti@eutropian.org>, Tim Flitcroft <tim@commonsrising.uk>, Hanne Van Reusel <hanne.vanreusel@kuleuven.be>, José Laulhé <jmlaulhe@gmail.com>, iva čukić <cukic.iva@gmail.com>, "[ STEALTH ]" <stealth@ultd.net>, Rocio del Pilar Trujillo <rocio7989@gmail.com>, Ruby van der Wekken <rubyvdwekken@gmail.com>, gaelle krikorian <gaelle.krikorian@gmail.com>, Andrew Belfield <andy@publicworksgroup.net>, Caitlin Fisher <cait.fisher@gmail.com>, Frédéric Sultan <fredericsultan@gmail.com>, Nonty Sedibe <nontys@gmail.com>, Bodinier David <dg.bodinier@gmail.com>, Koen Wynants <koenwynants@hotmail.com>, Jens Kimmel <jenskimmel87@gmail.com>, mamengal@upv.alumni.upv.es, Isabelle Saint-Saens <iss@kein.org>, Maria Jose Mendez Gallart <mamengal@alumni.upv.es>, alice priori <alicepriori@gmail.com>, Eimhin David <involuteconduit@gmail.com>, "Laamanen, Mikko" <mikko.laamanen@rhul.ac.uk>, giacomo dalisa <Giacomo_dalisa@yahoo.it>, Myriam Bouré <myriam.boure@gmail.com>, Laura Bernal <laurabernalph@gmail.com>, Mo Diener <mod_mir@gmx.net>, Esteban Romero Frías <eromerofrias@gmail.com>, mourin.nizam@utexas.edu, Melissa Harrison <melissa.harrison32@gmail.com>, Maite Arrondo <Maitearrondo@gmail.com>, Víctor Giménez <victor.gimenez@gmail.com>, jere kuzmanic <jerekuzmanic@gmail.com>, Emaline Friedman <emalinefriedman@gmail.com>, Teja Rot <teja.rot@gmail.com>, Senka Domovic Bulut <senkadb@gmail.com>, Alexandra Giannopoulou <alex.giannopoulou@gmail.com>, JP Schoffer Petricek <jpschofferpetricek@yahoo.de>, Volodymyr Sadnytskyy <sadnytskyy@i.ua>, david@totalism.org, "Mauricio O'Brien" <mauricio@goteo.org>, despkerani17@hotmail.com, Bart Grugeon Plana <bartgrugeon@gmail.com>, Jāzeps Bikše <jazepsbikse@gmail.com>, madrid@fair.coop, Christian Mahieu <christian.mahieu@orange.fr>, Angela Santos <angela@santosmiura.es>, Levente Polyak <levente.polyak@eutropian.org>, Jorge San Vicente <jsanvicentef@gmail.com>, Javier Aparicio Rubio <apariciorubio@gmail.com>, Jesus Salgado <jesus.salgado@querytek.com>, medialab@ugr.es, Ana Sofía Acosta Alvarado <anasofia.alvarado@hotmail.com>, till@posteo.de, rcantero@cicbata.org, Natalia Avlona <natalieroz@gmail.com>, MARGARITA RODRIGUEZ IBÁÑEZ <margaritarodriguezibanez@gmail.com>, obutsenko@i.ua, Henrique Parra <henrique@pimentalab.net>, Mayane Dore <maydore@gmail.com>, Oliver Kalleinen <kochta@nexgo.de>, vitalie.sprinceana@riseup.net, Jesús Bella Ceacero <jesusbella@gmail.com>, abernal@cccd.es, Besjan Pesha <besjan@gmail.com>, Nicole LEONARD <nicole.leonard@sciencespo.fr>, juan carlos Burgos <burgosyvinas@gmail.com>, Marian Simon <marianhaya@gmail.com>, Ana Mendez de Andes <malashierbas@gmail.com>, presidencia@observatoridesc.org, Nicolas Krausz <nicolas.krausz@fph.ch>, Malu Oliveira <maluoliveira60@gmail.com>, ar813@cam.ac.uk, "Mullenger, Nicola" <nmullenger@culturalfoundation.eu>, marionnpa <marionn.pa@gmail.com>, Alexandre Guttmann <alexandre.s.guttmann@gmail.com>, ihernand@der-pu.uc3m.es, irene.bernal@healthporderecho.org, vanessa.lopez@healthporderecho.org, giaocmo_dalisa@yahoo.it, gkoleva@mail.harvard.edu, jderivera@cccd.es, Bruno Carballa <bcarballa@gmail.com>, Sophie Bloemen <sophie@commonsnetwork.eu>, Virginia Díez <virginiadiez@wikimedia.es>, cgalisteo@cccd.es, hmartinez@cccd.es, Francisca Keller <franciscakeller@gmail.com>, Marcela Gonçalez Morgado <marcela.gmorgado@gmail.com>, BERNABE VILLALBA SILVA <bervilla@ucm.es>, dsierra@cccd.es, Silviu Medeşan <silviu.medesan@gmail.com>, Ramon Roca <ramon.roca@guifi.net>, Gaelle Krikorian <kgaell@gmail.com>, elisabetta cangelosi <betta.cangelosi@gmail.com>, Ivor Stodolsky <ivor.stodolsky@gmail.com>, Marita Muukkonen <maritamuukkonen@gmail.com>, "Paulissen, Vivian" <vpaulissen@culturalfoundation.eu>
    Subject: on ECA Madrid, art(istic) research/pedagogy and CreatING Commons (Was: Contribute to ECA Madrid Postproduction)
    Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 10:06:40 +0200

Dear Nathalie - I apologise for my later reply, 
changing subject line to fit the content in body
and that I keep others potentially interested in Cc
(hope it is OK with you - otherwise we modify)
... and I go back to in-line responding below ...

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:14 PM, Natalia Molina de la Villa <natalia.molinadelavilla@gmail.com> wrote:

 Hello everyone
 My point of view or contribution is that ECA is simply a common meeting place to join forces and generate proposals designed for a collective / social local improvement.

Yes - I fully agree, except that I would make even more simplification by explicitly adding '...common meeting place (online and occasionally in-situ event)...' 


 The common is being dismantled and it is urgent to press from all areas to the administrations and politicians to defend and protect those spaces.

Yes - again and would only add for precision 'urgent to press (in coordinated way and solidarity)' ...as pressure issue-by-issue - led us to this situation on neoliberal society, but that is elaborated in avery nice email Jon wrote in 'ECA - continuous refactoring in self-moderation' (hope everyone finds time to read and think).
  

 1 The example of my report of the ECa experience
 In the law group, I learned with surprise that the private and public idividual exists in the hands of the administrations, there is no communal or collective law figure without property and at the same time of all people. That may be interesting to rethink and make that legal figure appear.
 In no way do I consider that in 2 such brief encounters, anything can be or is intended to be defined, other than approaching the issue. but we never know to what extent we dare to say so little in current times.
 The commoning's a movement, not a concept,maybe is a 'young' generations born from a very old root that is the management of common resources, their collective care and sustainable use, a long time ago. It is not a concept that is in motion, and has much to contribute to the look of the present and the future.

...agree, but what I noticed it is that many of us have little perspective of this (?short) history and forget even what happened 2 years ago in ECA, let alone, what was 10-15 years with Creative Commons and other platforms. This to me is hugely problematic!


 On the other hand I think there is much to learn in order to generate horizontal construction processes, since we are not used to it and it often happens that some people understand that the common is a niche for their individual use.
 A key that something is really common, is not to add opinions and quick control subtraction to repor them. That is the "light" and most used version. I see a litle there. In order to reach really participatory meetings you have to talk and listen a lot with.
 And it is necessary to weigh these opinions and order them immediately by consensus and priority. Many opinions that no one collects and analyzes for its importance or priority, is not citizen participation is a joke, or the "zero" version  of participation and is being done.

I agree again and I hoped that facilitation in Madrid will be done in that way with informed and semi/permanently engaged facilitators :-/


  2º example of this is for my web Participa  Madrid  who would have needed a lot of staff working hard, reading and looking for key contributions among the proposals of the citizenship, to see what was needed, what was whim, look for mechanisms to add in key points and prioritize. not only from the number of votes or influence, but also from common sense and attentive reading. He stayed in the number, it is more than not asking for an opinion but it is still little in the way of citizens participate it will can be better, i see.
 
 I think it is important to focus on these processes of participation, improve them, and collect priorities, rather than define anything.

EXACTLY ! 


 One anegdotic but illustrative event ECA to finish, that caught my attention in the final session was when a short boy brusqueemnte the participation of two girls, I do not understand: 1 why he believed with the right to do so and no body tell nothing about. 

:-/ there was much that was not reacted to and I felt that general formal atmosphere was rather non-organic and problematic...


 2. if it was necessary to shorten, because he did not say so with more kindness and care That gesture does not denote any sensitivity to the other, I doubt that then I have it with the common. Maybe it was a bad day for this guy, That way of dealing is not procomun since it is not careful, nor empathic and I feel that some of that  careful, empathic, and loving beats in the common
 Thanks to everyone for the work and the commitment, especially to Lugy for your contribution and questions, which make me think about the dangers (not staying on the surface igenua or in the sum of reports). I am very busy working and afther your personal contribution has made me respond with my vision and share it with all the procomun colleagues ECA.
 Sorry for my English, I hope you understand, maybe we'll see each other soon in another meeting.

I think your English is good enough, but I would also encourage you to write in native language if you feel that your English is not expressive enough for you...this list should be used more by all in that way.

 I put my name and phone on a list of group (art) education procomun and I have no news about it and it is my field of work

Interesting. Who was heading this group? Would you consider to follow-up...
I would also like to take part and I write on why below...

 Natalia Molina MA and GICE Collective
 One more person in this world in which we live  and share ...

I am not sure if we met or communicated at ECA 
(sorry - bad memory as at least 70% of people were new to me)...
...for the moment I will presume we did not, 
which seems to be a misfortune as I come also from
art-education (formal study) as well as  
participatory/community art/activism (practice) and
critical/queer thinking and pedagogy (theory/discourse).
In past 20years I instigated, co-organized, worked in/on
media/technology culture& politics in mama.mi2.hr
and in other way in queer and sport community in 
QueerSport.info/www.ccSPORT.link 

Do you mind sending me some info on you and GICE?

I recently took part in research event CreatING Commons which was much focused on artistic research and critical pedagogy... Will write about this separately.

Best Z

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